Quoted from andy thompson

What  Stags desperately need is a decent inlet manifold and dare I say injection ? The standard set up serves only one purpose I can see and that is to fit under the bonnet

Thats my other long term project. I have made up a new "dummy" set of inlet manifolds - 2 so they can be individually bolted to the heads, one has the thermostat housing, with the other manifold connected via a hose - this means less sealing problems in the V (even with skimmed heads) you will even be able to dowl them to the heads to get port matching correct.

I am going for the single plenum, throttle body approach (like rover v - I am having some difficulty resolving the "adjustment" of the second manifold into the plenum but this will get sorted when time allows.

It should all be done in 3 castings, 2 manifolds and the plenum, with a removable flat alloy top plate on the plenum. Room in the plenum for standard intake trumpets.

Use megasquirt etc etc

Should improve fuel economy, hot starting etc etc

But what would be the demand?

mike

I imagine the demand would depend on the cost to a degree, do you have a view as to what the final cost would be once all other parts were bought?

Ian

I know someone that built a fuel injection system for a Stag as a project and that was about 20-25 years ago, from what I remember he just made and modified what he needed, but I can't remember the details, and technology has moved on such that what he did would have been rendered obsolete by now, but it was pretty clever at the time nevertheless. It worked as it should, but he never made his fortune from it. It must be easier now with the advent of the mappable EFI systems.
He went on to work on Formula 1 powerboat engines, and the Toyota Le Mans team.

The factory played with Lucas Mk2 mechanical injection - http://triumphmuseum.blogspot.com/2009/01/stag-v8-lucas-petrol-injection-inlet.html would look great with some ram pipes going straight up out the bonnet!!  

Quoted from mikew

Thats my other long term project. I have made up a new "dummy" set of inlet manifolds - 2 so they can be individually bolted to the heads, one has the thermostat housing, with the other manifold connected via a hose - this means less sealing problems in the V (even with skimmed heads) you will even be able to dowl them to the heads to get port matching correct.

Interested, depending on price. Been an idea on the back boiler for a while...

The PI manifold does not include the water ways.

This has been done by a gent in either Denmark or Sweden who modified the  carb manifold fairly extensively and used Megasquirt.

I found him via the Megasquirt "success stories" before I'd even started mine (5 + years ago) and it was there for a while as I looked at it several times.  Of course I can't find it now I want want it    Seem to remember he claimed huge torque and vastly improved fuel economy from an otherwise standard but carefully built engine.  If I had a Stag with original V8 I would do this, and probably lpg it at the same time.

Nick

I like Mike's idea to split the manifold into two. Resolves the problems of sealing the waterways on both heads.

There must be a better way to deal with those Stag waterways!  

Collective reply to the above, sorry about this but I am busy in Edinburgh at the moment.

Costs:-

Megasquirt, and the injectors, sensors, throttle body etc about £500, assuming new megasquirt and second hand pi parts

Castings ??? not as much as you think once the patterns are done, but they will need machining as well.

I didn't want to modify the existing manifold as its a compromise at best and it is the main problem anyway. Also its difficult to fit injectors to it, and get the fuel squirted in the correct direction.

Also, I wanted room to be able to fit LPG gas injectors, as this is the obvious next step.

I had already seen the manifolds in the Canley Museum, but I wanted to incorporate the coolant and a thermostat housing / heater bypass etc. Thesee are siamesed too, might as well do it properly.

The idea is to have the 2 sets of 4 inlet trumpets vertically into the plenum, with a single throtle body facing the front of the engine. Should then be easy to fit a filter and pipe cold air to it. Single throttle body save butterfly sync issues, which 6 pot pi suffers from, and I suspect will be a problem witht he motor cycle throttle body approaches.

Its not worth getting one casting done, it wants a small run to make it viable.

The mapping from one stag should be very much the same as for any other, so a map could be included.

mike

Sounds ok to me.  I'd imagine the main cost would be the casting patterns and tooling up for the machining.  I don't have any kind of feel for what that might be.  Numbers produced will obviously have a huge effect on total manufacturing cost but I reckon that anything up to £ 1K would be a reasonable price for a finished manifold/plenum ready to bolt on, especially if it tackles the water sealing issues.  This gives a realistic all-up finished price of well under £ 2K DIY or £ 2 - 2.5 K installed, which compares favourably with sums charged by some specialists to fit EFI to 6 pot TRs.

Nick

Quoted from mikew

Castings ??? not as much as you think once the patterns are done, but they will need machining as well.

Well I'm only concerned about the cost of the casting's (preferably machined) at present.

This would be yet another of my 'projects'. The megasquirt etc would be acquired later. I've always thought the Stag Induction & Extraction systems needed improvement.

Out of curiosity, has anyone made up a better manifold for use with the standard Stomberg carbs?  If there is that much to gain from a better manifold I would have thought that it might have already been attemped.  I've seen photos of different project Stag PI manifolds that were custom built out of alloy tubing and plates, but nothing as yet for carbs.

Personally I'd prefer a setup that uses the carbs and LPG rather than pay double the price for both PI and LPG.
LPG systems in this country (NL) generally must be installed by certified businesses which often drives the price up and I don't have a money tree in the garden.

Julian

EFI should improve the power & economy of a V8.

and I can't afford a V8 PI Metering Unit.

Definitely interested in finished manifolds....

Quoted from Nick Jones

Sounds ok to me.  I'd imagine the main cost would be the casting patterns and tooling up for the machining.  I don't have any kind of feel for what that might be.  Numbers produced will obviously have a huge effect on total manufacturing cost but I reckon that anything up to £ 1K would be a reasonable price for a finished manifold/plenum ready to bolt on, especially if it tackles the water sealing issues.  This gives a realistic all-up finished price of well under £ 2K DIY or £ 2 - 2.5 K installed, which compares favourably with sums charged by some specialists to fit EFI to 6 pot TRs.

Nick

Nick,

thank you, the provisional costs I had for the castings and machining will fit this budget, if I can get 10 or so interested parties

mike

Quoted from StagNL

Personally I'd prefer a setup that uses the carbs and LPG rather than pay double the price for both PI and LPG.
LPG systems in this country (NL) generally must be installed by certified businesses which often drives the price up and I don't have a money tree in the garden.

Julian

Gas systems here have to be certified, but you can do the work yourself and get it inspected and certified.

If you are only really after LPG, why not use the old gas mixer type - this works reasonably with carbs and could be made to fit your manifold, as it would sit as a mixer ring just under the carbs.

My intention was to allow the possibility of "injection" lpg, which works as well as efi

mike