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Triumph Torque    Cars    2000/2500/2.5PI  ›  newbie advice
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Patsbasha
March 20, 2017, 8:45pm Report to Moderator

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Ok so I am a newbie to the triumph brand of cars however, what I'm looking for is advice.  Im not the type of bloke that wants originality at 110% as far as the aesthetics im keen to keep original, running gear if fit for purpose then fine.  I do however like the idea of a 2.5 PI but would like a new set of throttle bodies and a modern injection system.  So in essence can i assume that the 2.5 engine is the same as a TR and if so is there a kit available? I'm looking for it to become an everyday car so advice on road handling and suspension, the better drive train is there an automatic gearbox worthy of consideration?

Not bought the car yet will look over a few in the summer after a few show visits, just about to hit retirement and looking for a derivable project.
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Nick Jones
March 20, 2017, 9:31pm Report to Moderator

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Hello & welcome,

A 2.5PI is a good start point and some would say perfect as it is......

The engine is very similar to the TR5 & 6 or identical to CR series TR6 from about 1973.  There are no outright specific kits  for EFI conversion though one or two of the TR specialists will sell you a Weber Alpha system.  Reasonably straight forward to adapt the OE hardware though and this has been done quite a few times now.

I had a project PI for a few years and fitting EFI was one of the things I did to it.  The FI bit kicks off about here
http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1286652768/s-165/

The whole saga may also provide some insight into the mechanical ailments that afflict these beasts and mine had pretty much all of them.  Won't help you very much with the places that they rust though as for all it's other faults it was remarkably rot free.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015 & HCR 2016.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in waiting
Spitfire MKIV resto nearly complete (consultant only - son's project)
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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Patsbasha
March 20, 2017, 9:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
Hello & welcome,

A 2.5PI is a good start point and some would say perfect as it is......

The engine is very similar to the TR5 & 6 or identical to CR series TR6 from about 1973.  There are no outright specific kits  for EFI conversion though one or two of the TR specialists will sell you a Weber Alpha system.  Reasonably straight forward to adapt the OE hardware though and this has been done quite a few times now.

I had a project PI for a few years and fitting EFI was one of the things I did to it.  The FI bit kicks off about here
http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1286652768/s-165/

The whole saga may also provide some insight into the mechanical ailments that afflict these beasts and mine had pretty much all of them.  Won't help you very much with the places that they rust though as for all it's other faults it was remarkably rot free.

Nick


Hi Nick

Thanks for being so quick with a response, my intention would be to purchase a sound car to start with and with luck someone would have been busy looking after it.  Im not shy at commissioning new engineering; marine engineer by trade although since retired, wish id taken the CNC and lathes as a severance.  I'm also toying with the idea of LPG and air suspension.  Im lucky to be living just outside Lincoln and have Rimmer on my door step one reason I have opted for Triumph.

Rgds

Patrick
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JohnD
March 20, 2017, 11:37pm Report to Moderator


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If you want to EFI, then Nick's yer man for advice!
But dont be misled by all the stories of Lucas Pi being unreliable - in fact its fit-n-forget!

The problem was that Triumph were the first productiion cars to be fitted with a fuel injection system, but Triumph being a miserly company as well as short of cash, didn't bither to offer any training to their dealers or thier workshop staff.
So when these first came in for service, the technicians fiddled with the Metering units as if they were carburettors, lost the settings and could find no easy way back, as you can with carbs.
The cars lost tune and Pi was forever damned.

In fact, get the M/u set up and rebuilt for modern no-lead, alcohol fuel, aND the injectors cleaned or rebuilt, and it's more reliable than carbs.
Several gurus around the country have original Lucas set-up rigs on the bench, and can do it for you when they rebuild an M/u.  (EG Prestige and KMI)
Then, the M/u is very versatile.  I'm running one on a 2 Litre engine right now.

OR, Megasquirt!

JOhn


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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josh18
March 21, 2017, 4:15am Report to Moderator


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Hey Pat, glad to hear you're getting a Triumph! I have a PI and the plan has always been to convert it to EFI, but so far it has been really reliable as PI so now I am thinking of going for just mappable ignition instead, which apparently is where a lot more power and driveability gains can be had. I had My MU and injectors re-co'd years ago with modern seals and all it's been pretty good. I have had a couple of split diaphragms and one mechanical breakage in the MU in that times, in all cases it defaults to full rich and soots the plugs quickly but i got it home each time. From what I hear of custom efi installs you would have a similar failure rate in that time but they may be harder to track down. Another thing that I have learned is that event though efi may give you better economy it will not give better power than PI and that PI is more capable than triple webbers too.
I like the idea of controlling the ignition though for reasons above and also it's be a really interesting project.
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nang
March 21, 2017, 4:55am Report to Moderator

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Think I'd stay away form LPG. Got a lecture once from a boss that ran a fleet of Mercedes coaches. He went on for a long time about not using LPG for anything that was not designed by the manufacturers to do so. Some experience with 300 Bedfords so converted leads me to agree.
Tony.


If all else fails-Read the Instructions! ��Wairoa
New Zealand

1976 2500TC (converted to S spec
1979 2500 S.
1999 BMW 2800 cc Z3 Convertible.
 
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Charles H
March 21, 2017, 11:11am Report to Moderator

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Folkestone
Kent
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Patsbasha
March 21, 2017, 12:34pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks to all for your comments, now then what competition options are there once I've got this project done, where can you test and break it!  quite fancy some sort of road rally, are competition parts readily available?  
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TedTaylor
March 21, 2017, 12:44pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Several gurus around the country have original Lucas set-up rigs on the bench, and can do it for you when they rebuild an M/u.  (EG Prestige and KMI)
Then, the M/u is very versatile.
JOhn


Don't forget Neil Ferguson - I found him excellent, good prices, and his experience probably greater than anyone (he worked for Lucas on the PI system).

MUT


Mad Uncle Ted!
Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional.

AFH849B Mk1 2000 period rally replica (under restoration ..... again) First re-built 1991
NAM616G Morris 1800 London Sydney/Monte/World Cup (awaiting restoration)
SCG115G Mk1 PI estate
WDE 76K Mk2 2500 estate (Woodie) RBRR 2014   2016  
LSE Soft Dash Range Rover with Brooklands body kit on LPG (Still for sale)

From the depths of the Forest of Dean....
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Jonny-Jimbo
March 21, 2017, 1:29pm Report to Moderator

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OP - the road rallies and events the club run can be run with a standard car, although most of the more serious competitors do tend to run the cars with mildly / fruitily upgraded suspension, brakes, engine, wheels and tyres etc.
The club also runs the autosolo in the summer and some track days in conjunction with other clubs etc.

Other options are events through the HRCR etc, but these tend to be much more expensive than the club events.

You can get 'upgraded' parts from the likes of Chris Witor - arguably one of the best for the big saloon parts, and Dave Harvey has a range of quality products too, and he pops up on the forum and facebook reasonably often. He's up Derby direction and Chris is down in Somerset.

Exclusively motorsport parts - not so much. The cars were always more popular in the rally scene, so circuit racing parts aren't as common, although they big saloons have raced with some success in the past and currently campaigned in classic series.

My advice is to keep it standard and then upgrade as things break, although in some cases the original, and even good second hand parts are better than new.

When you go to buy try and check the gearboc crossmember, right at the back of the housing. Modern reproductions are crap, and last only a few hundred miles in some cases - there is a source of good parts from Australia and available through Chris Witor, but these cost int he region of £100 from memory just for a rubber mount!


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
66 Herald 1200 - Donor
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Awaiting rebuild & modification
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Running
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Patsbasha
March 21, 2017, 9:03pm Report to Moderator

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Many thanks, have actually convinced the other half retirement might be a blast and at this time(know to change her mind) is very up for it, and shown interest in a small two seater. not my cup of tea at 6'4" but if it keeps her happy, have had the motorcycles and boats flatly refused as a retirement plan.   Just seen the estate 2000 I like that and can see it towing a saloon to events.  Is there a new OEM body shell on the market?  

Rgds

Patrick
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Jonny-Jimbo
March 22, 2017, 10:31am Report to Moderator

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For 2000s? There was a NOS estate body shell for sale ages ago, but from memory was in New Zealand??

Lloyd Reed is making panels for the 2000 range though, so most repairs are possible, if slightly costly.


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
66 Herald 1200 - Donor
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Awaiting rebuild & modification
70 Herald 13/60 - First car, many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles on the clock
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Running
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Dead
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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Trolleybus
March 23, 2017, 3:10am Report to Moderator


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Hello Patsbasha,
The Lucas system is a great system but you may have to pay a premium to get a 2.5PI. Here is an alternate approach using a 2500TC and a British supplied ECU.
Have a look at this link.
http://sportingregister.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/TRIUMPH-TC-i-PROJECT.pdf


__________________________________________________

1956 Tr3  since 1980
1977 2500 TC EFI  since 2012
Saab 900 Turbo since 1997
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