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Andy Flexney
September 24, 2017, 8:38am Report to Moderator
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as everyone knows the 2017 10CR was over subscribed. It was only due to clever negotiations by Theo and Ellis that we managed to get the numbers up to 85 teams. There were still other people who would have liked to have done it.

My question is why did these other teams want to do it? Was it based on the their past experience of the run, or was it the stories from other people who had done previous runs or was it they wanted to try the challenge as it was or some other reason?

From the other couple of threads I have started on this theme I see some people like the idea of an overnighter dash and others like the idea of a leisurely 7 day drive around Europe with lots of time to stop, see things and socialise.

I am presuming most of the people who like the leisurely option are people who have done many 10CRs and are now getting older and perhaps more wiser and are guaranteed over 50. I count myself into this group. But is there a younger generation who still look for that challenge and would like, as we did back in 2003 and 2005, to prove something to themselves?

If so and considering the fact that the 10CR is over subscribed why not have 2 runs? They do not have to run at the same time and certainly do not have to have the same organisers. One could be in early summer and the other in its usual spot, or the leisurely one could run in the same years with the RBRR.  There be competition between the 2 runs i hear you say! I doubt it, as the target groups have different agendas.

The idea of the 10CR was to offer something similar to the RBRR but on mainland Europe. Today it has morphed into something not really recognisable in that it is neither a RBRR equivalent nor is it a touring holiday.

Time for a re-think perhaps?

Cheers
AndyF

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Chriss
September 24, 2017, 9:30am Report to Moderator

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Hi Andy

I was one of those who would have wanted to enter.

It's the old dilemma that not all want the hard core event and not all want a Euro-cruise.  However there is one big difference from earlier and that is the numbers wanting to enter is beginning to make one compromise event unviable, but opens up the opportunity for two uncompromised events.

Your suggestion sounds good and need not necessarily double the organising workload.

I am up for it, and I'd like to help in the organisation.

Chris


Track Day Organiser

TR7 DHC 1981
Saab C900 8v Turbo 1983
Saab C900 16v TurboS 1988
Saab C900 16v SE 1993
Peugeot 205 GRD 1986
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Howard
September 24, 2017, 1:02pm Report to Moderator

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Andy et al.

IMHO CT is "the club that does" and has a hard won reputation for challenging events, however as you say times change. There is a risk that the 10CR morphs into another of the many European drives advertised in the classic motoring press so I will add my thoughts for what they are worth.

I enjoyed this years run. The route was interesting & the minimal traffic in the Alps was a real high point. It was challenging and most days we left about 8am and only arrived at the hotels after 9pm having completed almost all of the official route with short breaks for fuel and food. Hotel beds were much more comfortable than the seats in my 7! It was also much more family friendly with opportunities to short cut making for an easier drive.

The minus points were the lack of a common control/start point each day, so until the final day we hardly saw anyone after the start, the increased cost for hotels and the effect on domestic harmony due to the increased total duration.

In the past I enjoyed the opportunity to drive through the night on deserted roads and wake up to the dawn chorus of airliners taking off. It allowed us to swap tales and parts with other teams (I have a 5L can of oil that completed 1 10CR's and 2 RBRR's with different teams before it got back to me) and strike up new friendships. Also missed from the latest 10CR were the impromptu convoys that formed - Dave & I rarely saw another Triumph for most of this years run. Clearly it was more intense and not everyone's cup of tea, but I would be sad to totally lose it.

I like the suggestion that there are two types of run in future, but would like to see them remain on alternate years to the RBRR, for reasons of domestic harmony if nothing else! I would suggest a 10CR full on style one year followed by a 10CR light with Hotel stops every night to meet everyone's preferences. The daily control/start points should be reinstated because they allowed a chance to meet and chat and by starting together we saw many more Triumph's on the trip. Keeping the group together has many advantage when things go wrong - eg when Mike Charlton's half shaft broke just ahead of us there was plenty of support to assist in moving the car to a safe place.

By adding an entry requirement for entrants to show that they have completed a serious distance event before the 10CR (e.g. HCR or similar) it  would encourage new members to try some of the less subscribed CT events and familiarize themselves with challenges of long drives before driving the 10CR.

Cheers

Howard




Le Mans 2007, 08, 09, 10 & 11
RBRR 2008(DNF), 10, 14, 16
10CR 2009, 11, 13, 15, 17
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yorkshire_spam
September 24, 2017, 1:25pm Report to Moderator

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I'm not sure of the economics or availability of organisers from a club point of view, but if accommodating 80+ on a single event is pushing the venues/organisation then maybe 2 distinct smaller events is the way forward?
eg.
early in "even" years a gentle jaunt across Europe on a more relaxed pace.
(late in "even" years the RBRR)
late in "odd" years a challenging European event more in the spirit of the early 10CR events

That way every year has a challenging "hardcore" event (in the spirit of CT) and every other year a more relaxed European trip.
With more "prestige" events on the calendar maybe the over subscription of the RBRR and (existing) 10CR might be alleviated?

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JohnD
September 24, 2017, 2:02pm Report to Moderator


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There are already many companies offering 'classic car tours' that are no doubt less stressful than even the "gentle jaunt" suggested by Sam.   It would be a mistake to go too far from the original idea.

IMHO, the events should bear in mind the limitations on professional drivers' hours.     Nine hours, with a break before an eleven hour rest is so far from the 24/24 of the original events even with a codriver that if ever questioned by the authorities, would be impossible to defend the latter.     But night driving and long distance driving are the essence of 10CR and RBRR and need to be preserved.
John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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cliftyhanger
September 24, 2017, 3:44pm Report to Moderator

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I don't think the format needs a significant change at all.
At most maybe offer an overnighter, like 2015. But then it wasn't exactly popular then, so may not appeal again, and would involve extra work for organisers. And I suspect one reason for increased popularity is the hotel stops, something that definitely appeals at my tender age!

I don't think a leisurely tor pace is needed either, but a realistic drive that enables people to leave a hotel at 8-9am, and be able to have a dinner that evening by 8pm? So about 10 hours. in 2015 we did a long day, and stopped for dinner in Austria (we think, nobody spoke English and we were relying on rusty school German) and then had another 90mins to go after, getting to the hotel late. Seemed to work really well, but I know many like to have a few beers with dinner etc, and nothing wrong with that.

Lets face it, any event will never totally please all the people. However, whatever the 10CR does, it will please most of the people most of the time, especially if it can be arranged to have a bit more in the way of "togetherness" at specific times, starts etc. Not all the time, but some.


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Don Cook
September 29, 2017, 11:26am Report to Moderator

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I didn't join the 10CR this year, however, I agree with Howard that "...missed from the latest 10CR were the impromptu convoys that formed" , convoys are what really make the 10CR, well, for me anyway; with only 16 cars in 2003 I must have joined several.

Andy also raises issues that need considering: "...is there a younger generation who still look for that challenge and would like, as we did back in 2003 and 2005, to prove something to themselves?", of course he's right, there is, judging from the initial over subscription. So why not give priority to Club Triumph's 10CR 'newbies', while the "...people who like the leisurely option are people who have done many 10CRs and are now getting older and perhaps more wiser" can take Andy's second suggestion.

As for me...I'd make changes to the date (21 June 2019 offers maximum daylight - I still don't know what Lichtenstein looks like!), bring the start back to the UK (close to the ferry port being used) and don't have a maximum number of entrants...but then that wouldn't be the 10CR as we currently know it.


Don Cook
Manningtree, Essex

GT6 Mk3 Signal Red (Tomboy). Triumphs in the past: Vitesse 1600, Toledo. Tiger Cub, Thunderbird.

Ten Countries Run 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2015
Several Dutch Rallies.
Some La Carrera Caledonia.

Best trip ever: Ijsselmeer causeway then up through Germany, Denmark...over the two massive bridges of Slorebaeltbroen and Oresund to Ystad in Sweden where we got an overnight ferry to Poland, then on to Berlin etc.
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CharlieD
September 29, 2017, 12:51pm Report to Moderator
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Having read the above comments it seems there are plenty of options out there....
BUT It would be worth bearing in mind unless you are willing to offer your time (like Chris above) in the MASSIVE amount of work done by the 3 man 10 CR organising team (many less than the RBRR) surely it is down to the 10CR organisers to design the event as they see fit? Judging by the ever increasing entry they seem to keep getting the formula right as the 10 CR is always a popular event.
With regards to daily check points this is a logistical nightmare - getting everyone together for a restart - even on day 1 this year despite instruction that you must arrive by 8am there were crews turning up after the cut off time and some crews did not turn up at all. This then means the organising team is also late in getting away on the event - which lets remember is also their event to enjoy also.
The ethos of the event has always been that you make it what you want - leaving it up to you to cut the route if you wish, the same can be said if you want to convoy with others you can always put a post out there on the forum to see if others want to join you. The same applies to meeting up with other crews in the evening - put a post on the forum and arrange to meet other in the area you are staying with.  In my experience Club Triumph folk are a friendly lot and unlikely to turn you away!  And if you want to drive through the night - DO IT!! find some like minded folk and arrange it between yourselves.
This was my 4th 10CR and I enjoyed it every bit as much as my first and I am already looking forward to the 2019 event.



1978 2500S auto Estate and 1982 TR7V8 DHC auto
10CR - 2011, 2013, 2015, 2017
RBRR - 2012, 2014, 2016
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cliftyhanger
September 29, 2017, 6:02pm Report to Moderator

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Happy to assist if needed  
But I think event organisers usually like to have feedback, find out what worked well etc. to help plan future events. And here nobody has been critical, just sharing ideas/thoughts about that may be (or not!) useful.

Indeed, I am looking forward to the next one. Just hope the weather is as kind


Clive Senior

Location-Brighton, East Sussex
Foxy is here, 1500od tax exempt Toledo. Now has the decent engine back in Slant 4 engine bolted in, sprint box and axle.Now has fresh MoT. Needs paint though.
Spitfire Zetec project is started work progressing slooooowly on the road!
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Howard
September 29, 2017, 6:24pm Report to Moderator

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For the daily restarts, signing could be delegated to different people each day, so our hardworking organizers could enjoy the run. I am not the only person who would willingly sign up delayed start on one day to make the run better for everyone else.

H



Le Mans 2007, 08, 09, 10 & 11
RBRR 2008(DNF), 10, 14, 16
10CR 2009, 11, 13, 15, 17
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mole42
September 30, 2017, 8:58am Report to Moderator

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Although I moved from the 'reserve' list to the 'active' list this year and was excited to be taking part, my car had other ideas and so I regretfully had to withdraw.

I have done the RRBR twice - in 1990 and in 2016 and found the pace and timing of that event perfectly suited me even though on the latter event I was over 60. I personally favour the all-night drive and a more formal start to each leg of the task. I can organise a Continental touring holiday for myself and make it to suit my own ideas, as I understand it the challenge of the 10CR was to make a European version of the RBRR and I think that would make for more interest from me. I'd have to find co-drivers that were up to the task though!!


RBRR: 1990 finisher in the late UTB 757L and 2016 finisher in
Mabel who is a white 1972 Mk1.5 Stag, TV8, ZF 4HP-22 auto.
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Saltddirk
October 8, 2017, 12:47pm Report to Moderator

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let the 10CR as it started, a hardcore drive but choose a different venue, away from the Alps
add a new event as a re-edition of the Alpine trials. Triumph did well in those.
A few overnight stops, should be challenging enough and pleasing for us old gits that want a comfy bed in the evening.
This was the route they took in 1932






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round the bend might be the best place to be.
slightly mad but mostly harmless
RBRR 14 16 
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Bryce
October 10, 2017, 7:50am Report to Moderator

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I thought the 10CR was spot on this year. To me it fell in-between the two, it wasn’t too hard-core and it wasn’t a leisurely tour. I don’t know if Jonny and I fell into the younger generation both being under 35. For us the 10CR was definitely about the challenge. We wanted to leave home and come back without using a Sat-Nav, we wanted to wear the 10CR T-shirt everyday for the entire event and we wanted things to go wrong so that we could fix them. It sounds daft doesn’t it but if we had left home and followed a Sat-Nav all the way, with nothing going wrong with the car, we would have enjoyed the scenery but that’s about it. I think not having the restarts would be my only criticism although Martin had booked the same hotels as his mates so we met up with them each night and had a beer and a meal. It wouldn’t have been the same experience if we had done the entire trip without the camaraderie each night. I could, however, see the Older generation were really struggling to keep up    .

After the event we both wanted to do a similar event again but maybe push a bit further. We talked about doing the Nordics or even go as far as Kazakhstan. The Alps are amazing but they are becoming a bit too familiar for me now.


Spitfire mk3 1969
Spitfire mk3 1968
Toledo 2dr 1971
Tr7 sprint rally, Raiders BRP
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Bryce
October 10, 2017, 2:00pm Report to Moderator

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Anyone else yearning for adventure



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Spitfire mk3 1969
Spitfire mk3 1968
Toledo 2dr 1971
Tr7 sprint rally, Raiders BRP
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Nick Jones
October 10, 2017, 5:57pm Report to Moderator

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Great pic...... TR on the Safari rally?

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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