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Jason
April 8, 2014, 2:17pm Report to Moderator

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At long last I am fitting the new interior I have for the TR - new carpets, underfelt, door panels, vinyl, recover the H frame etc - so it's all stripped out now.

I've been chasing a clutch issue for a while, occasionally the clutch pedal seems to "stick"making smooth take up of drive very tricky. I found a missing pedal return spring and that improved things but then it came back so I replaced all the hydraulics, this didn't cure it but again it was a little better. I then suspected that the pedal bushes might be worn so I've just stripped the pedal box out to replace them but they are only very slightly worn not enough to be causative.

So, clutch cross shaft maybe? What tests can I do to see if this is the likely culprit before I bite the bullet and pull the box out? I really didn't want to get into that but I'll do it if I have to - might as well throw a clutch kit in too unless it looks really good but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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mikew
April 8, 2014, 2:44pm Report to Moderator

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Sometimes its the clutch bearing carrier sticking slightly on the gearbox nose piece - check for sharp edges / rough edges etc.

Also wear where the slipper pins fit in the bearing carrier - check the grove is uniform with straight edges.

You can double up the cross shaft bearings in the gearbox too

Have fun, pull the box you know it makes sense  


FF Stag V8 Estate White - RBRR 2012 (Lambrini Courier Car)
TR5 Valencia Blue
Stag Red 10 CR and Auto Ecosse 2013
Dolomite Sprint Vermillion HCR 2014 - didn't finish - naughty car ! RBRR 2014 - I now love this car ! HCR 2015 HCR2016  RBRR 2016
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The Blog to be found at http://standardtriumphcars.blogspot.com/
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Jason
April 8, 2014, 3:01pm Report to Moderator

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Yeah Mike, I know it makes sense I've never pulled a TR6 box out before, it looks just as much fun as a Herald/Spit/Vitesse!

When you say double up the bearings - do you mean just stick two in there?


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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mikew
April 8, 2014, 3:32pm Report to Moderator

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Its more fun than a Herald Spitfire etc etc as the box is so much heavier  

Yes just fit 2 bearings each side - the alloy housing is about 25mm thick, and a bearing about 10mm, so 2 fit each side without issue, and with a larger surface they wear more slowly


FF Stag V8 Estate White - RBRR 2012 (Lambrini Courier Car)
TR5 Valencia Blue
Stag Red 10 CR and Auto Ecosse 2013
Dolomite Sprint Vermillion HCR 2014 - didn't finish - naughty car ! RBRR 2014 - I now love this car ! HCR 2015 HCR2016  RBRR 2016
Jensen Interceptor MK1 Ice Blue

The Blog to be found at http://standardtriumphcars.blogspot.com/
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AndyF
April 8, 2014, 4:20pm Report to Moderator
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Jason,

We had this on a TR5 and a TR6 last year and both times it was the bearing carrier. This was made out of cast (?) iron and after changing to a brass carrier all was well. It appears the iron carrier wears, the hole becomes oval and starts to jam on the shaft. This is especially noticeable on the TR5 and TR6 were it cannot spin freely as on the TR3. During the rebuild we left the pin out of the bearing carrier on the TR6 to see if this will help.

First we were told it was because of aftermarket clutches and clutch covers but could not find any evidence to back this up. Although it did slightly improve when we put in a reconditioned original Laycock cover and new plate.

Beware there are 2 different size bearing carrier and if I manage to find the bad picture I took I will add it here. The one on the left is the one I used in the TR3 albeit with TR6 gearbox and overdrive so I presume this is the one you will need for yours. The gearbox flange to engine is thinner on the original TR3 box therefore the slightly moved back bearing carrier.

As Mike says take you gearbox out you know it makes sense and replace the bearing carrier. If you have the seats out already for the carpet refit it is only a couple of hours and you have the box out repaired and back in

Cheers
AndyF



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Jason
April 8, 2014, 5:34pm Report to Moderator

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Right well that's settled then, I'll get the box out - I've rebushed the pedal box, feels a lot better now but it wasn't notchy so I'm positive that isn't my problem but at least it's done and going back in the car now.
I'll pull the box tomorrow and see what delights I find in there. The car was restored 20+ years ago and done on a budget as the money was spent in funny places - new floors, wings, etc but a patchwork of old trim back in, some with the mud splashes from the holed inner wings still on it! The structure is sound and the mechanicals good so it's only silly things that need rectifying - I suspect that 20 years ago the quality of the some of parts wasn't that great either - or at least there might have been cheapo options used. I've been rectifying the short cuts and most are sorted - this clutch issue is one of the last I hope.

The bronze carrier is available new from Paddocks (as is the cast one) and it does look like the left one in your picture



Oh and Mike - I've seen "double" bushes for the cross shaft like this



Looks like an easy worthwhile mod.

Thanks for the input guys.


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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Hogie
April 8, 2014, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Hi Jason,
                  when you have it apart have a look at the fork taper pin - replace this as their life is interesting - consider putting in the extra cross bolt to help the taper pin.

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Jason
April 8, 2014, 6:11pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks Roger, everything so far suggests that the taper pin should be replaced when your have the opportunity!


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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Nick Jones
April 8, 2014, 6:50pm Report to Moderator

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Jason,

If you haven't discovered the Buckeye Triumphs site, a wealth of information awaits you.

Just one small corner of it
http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/StickyClutch/StickyClutch.htm

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015 & HCR 2016.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in waiting
Spitfire MKIV resto nearly complete (consultant only - son's project)
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

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Jason
April 8, 2014, 9:53pm Report to Moderator

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Thanks for that, there's soooo much on that Buckeye site, I always feel I'm missing something when it comes to finding what you need


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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Jason
April 9, 2014, 3:43pm Report to Moderator

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Right, gearbox is out. God knows how I'm going to get it back in there but that's another problem! Photos on my blog - it all looked OK to me. It's a cast iron carrier but not excessively worn, it does have some wear "dents" in it though from where the fork touches.
I think the issue may be the cross shaft bushes, they are single width and knackered, whether this is actually enough to cause my issue I'm not so sure.
I'm going to have a look at the cover and plate next, see if I can find anything obvious there.
Any thoughts?


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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thescrapman
April 9, 2014, 6:26pm Report to Moderator

Colin Wake
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the little hat things on the ends of teh forks look quite worn in the pictures.

Or are there no little hats.

Or .... is it the version that uses square hats

And just push in some double width cross shaftbearings, no need to take the old ones out.

Also the pin should have been wired.

Cheers


Schadenfreude expert and collector of assorted rusty Triumphs on the Essex/Suffolk Border.

2010, 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016 CT Navigators Championship winner.

10CR 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011 2013 - RBRR 1990, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 - Nachtrit 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012 - Chinese rally 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - HCR 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 (3rd place), 2014. 2015, 2017

On the road.
1968 Spitfire Mk3 : 1973 TR6 : 1967 Herald 1200 Estate 1970 : 1968 Mk1 2.5PI 1968
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Jason
April 9, 2014, 7:09pm Report to Moderator

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No little hats on the fork, the marks look a lot worse in the photos I think. There was no sign of any locking wire but it'll get some when I reassemble. The driven plate looks fine, loads of meat left on it, the plate looks OK too, the fingers are worn but not excessively so. Apart from the release bearing carrier and the cross shaft bushes I can't really see much wrong with it all, which is a pain!!


Jason
Reading, Berkshire

TR6, very yellow. New overdrive is in, just need to put the interior and carpets back in - again!

Still looking for a really good Vitesse convertible.

It's all in the Blog at http://chinn.blogspot.com/

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mikew
April 9, 2014, 7:14pm Report to Moderator

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Bearing carrier and fork is (are) shot.

Those marks on the fork and the indents in the carrier are all it needs to spoil the clutch action.

The pin needs wiring too, (thats what the hole is for) on refitting to stop it coming loose


FF Stag V8 Estate White - RBRR 2012 (Lambrini Courier Car)
TR5 Valencia Blue
Stag Red 10 CR and Auto Ecosse 2013
Dolomite Sprint Vermillion HCR 2014 - didn't finish - naughty car ! RBRR 2014 - I now love this car ! HCR 2015 HCR2016  RBRR 2016
Jensen Interceptor MK1 Ice Blue

The Blog to be found at http://standardtriumphcars.blogspot.com/
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AndyF
April 9, 2014, 7:24pm Report to Moderator
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Jason,

there should not be any dents in the bearing carrier and certainly not in the position where it is. Is there one at the other side too? The bearing should spin until the little pin through the carrier is pressing against one of the pins on the fork.

I would replace the bearing carrier and the bearing, the fork pin and the cross shaft bearings and the complete clutch. In other words just about everything. The fingers on the clutch look quite worn and could be contributing to your problem.

I would not only wire the fork pin but drill a 3mm or 4 mm hole in the middle of the fork at 90 degrees to the pin position and tap a roll pin through. It offers support to the pin and will hopefully not break before you have had chance to take the box off again for clutch replacement or whatever.

AndyF
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