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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 7:46am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
I think my gauge has a similar problem. reads around half when full and goes up to full when getting lower...........
Must be the gauge i assume? can i calibrate it or get it serviced?


There are two gauge systems. The early type uses the straight 12V feed from the ignition switch. The later type uses a 10V stabilised feed from the aforementioned voltage stabiliser. The gauge and sender must be matched together as the systems are quie different in the way they work, the reverse reading and odd scaling are typical symptoms of the gauge and sender being from different system types.

This isn't unusual, it's quite common for a replacment fuel tank to be sourced from the 'wrong' kind of Herald or Vitesse, without understanding the sender requirements. As tanks are prone to rust, this is something I've seen time and again. The eraly senders were all fitted to the tank with 6 screws. Later (stabilised) senders can either have the six screws or a locking ring retaining it. Let us know what you've got.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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JohnD
January 17, 2017, 8:33am Report to Moderator


Posts: 6,880
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Quoted from Richard B
Returned to "from whence it came"  

JRR Tolkien

Gramatically incorrect, but who am I to argue  


I regret that because Google first hits on Lord of the Rings does not mean that it was Tolkein's original phrase.

"From whence it came" was, for instance used by Edmund Burke, describing the origins of the misery of the Irish population in 1798.   The unusual word, "whence", applied to other pronouns has been used by very many speakers and writers seeking a sonorous phrase, from President Kennedy to James Baldwin to Leonardo da Vinci to Clement of Alexandria.

John
PS Who am I to correct another's spelling (!), when I am a grievous sinner, but "grammatically" has two 'm's?


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:17am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


There are two gauge systems. The early type uses the straight 12V feed from the ignition switch. The later type uses a 10V stabilised feed from the aforementioned voltage stabiliser. The gauge and sender must be matched together as the systems are quie different in the way they work, the reverse reading and odd scaling are typical symptoms of the gauge and sender being from different system types.

This isn't unusual, it's quite common for a replacment fuel tank to be sourced from the 'wrong' kind of Herald or Vitesse, without understanding the sender requirements. As tanks are prone to rust, this is something I've seen time and again. The eraly senders were all fitted to the tank with 6 screws. Later (stabilised) senders can either have the six screws or a locking ring retaining it. Let us know what you've got.

Cheers,
Bill.


It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411




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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Hogie
January 17, 2017, 9:18am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from heraldcoupe


I've just checked the factory wiring diagram and it confirms that there is no voltage stabiliser,

Cheers,
Bill.


Learning all the time !!!  I shouldn't compare one car with another - why did TRiumph change so much, so often?

Roger


TR4A 1967 daily(ish) driver
TR41962  having surgery at present
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:20am Report to Moderator

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Here's a interior picture if that helps in any way.



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:22am Report to Moderator

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Here's a bad picture of the gauge too.



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 11:22am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411

Hmm... Rimmers list two types of sender, differentiated only by the mounting method. Bill says there are three, because the six-bolt type can be either stabilised or non-stabilised. I know who of those I'd trust on matters Triumph...


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 11:40am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RobPearce

Hmm... Rimmers list two types of sender, differentiated only by the mounting method. Bill says there are three, because the six-bolt type can be either stabilised or non-stabilised. I know who of those I'd trust on matters Triumph...


Well the one i have fitted gave 30 Ohms at full. Does that tell us anything?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Jonny-Jimbo
January 17, 2017, 11:43am Report to Moderator

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This would probably explain why my Vitesse temp gauge is always at full cold or off the dial. Either that or it over heats horribly...


62 Vitesse 1600 - Slammed & modified
67 2000 - Fitted with 2.5 o/d - 2012 RBRR, 2015 Essex Rally, 2016 HCR, 2016 RBRR
67 2000 Estate - Dusty
70 Herald 13/60 - Many bits
77 CZ 125 Sport - 70 miles from new
77 Kawasaki KM90 - Shop hack
81 Yamaha DT125 - Restored
88 Ginetta G4/4 - Mid-Resto!
88 BMW E30 320i - For Sale
89 Citroen AX GT - Rally car!
90 BMW E30 318iS - Building to FIA spec
90 Mazda Eunos 1.6 - 'Popeye'
93 BMW 530i - Donor
95 BMW E34 540i - 4L V8
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 12:15pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Well the one i have fitted gave 30 Ohms at full. Does that tell us anything?

Right this very moment... no. If I remember, I'll measure Tessa's when I get home (she is full, conveniently, and I know she's the later type, being a 2L).


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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JohnD
January 17, 2017, 12:22pm Report to Moderator


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Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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Nick Jones
January 17, 2017, 1:11pm Report to Moderator

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That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.  If the temperature gauge behaves normally then the stabiliser is there and working but there is still the possibility that the sender is not the matching one.

The early 1600s at least had a single big speedo with the fuel gauge in the bottom of it like the Herald 1200s and they probably don't have voltage stabilisers though types existed for the Heralds at least.......


Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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RobPearce
January 17, 2017, 3:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones
That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.

Nick,

That would have been my initial instinct but it has been said that the late 1600s (which did have that style of dash) used different gauges to the 2L. We know Paula's is a later car as it has Strombergs.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 5:33pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 3,712
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Quoted from Nick Jones
That's the later dash (or transferred from a later 2L) and surely should have a voltage stabiliser.  If the temperature gauge behaves normally then the stabiliser is there and working but there is still the possibility that the sender is not the matching one.

The early 1600s at least had a single big speedo with the fuel gauge in the bottom of it like the Herald 1200s and they probably don't have voltage stabilisers though types existed for the Heralds at least.......


Nick


Partially correct.  The 1600 had a large 110mph single dial (Herald style) up to September 1963 then adopted the 4 dial dash as per Paula's car with a 110mph speedo (as per Paula's car), the MKl 2 Litre had the same style of dash with the arced central switch pattern but had its speedo calibrated to 120mph, the MKll Vitesse of course had a different style of dash altogether.  There aren't many pre-September 1963 Vitesse 1600's left I guess and there weren't that many built between May 1962 and September 1963.  I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.  My guess is that it is a stabilised sender unit in a non stabilised system.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Pete Lewis
January 17, 2017, 7:33pm Report to Moderator

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Easy to identify the gauge types
12v non stabilised the needles move imeadiatley and czn wag about on the road
10v stabilised gauges the needle moves slowly in a damped steady movementdo not react instantly

the 12v moving iron gauges must have the correct sender and temp transmitter as both are totally
different to the stabilised gauges

if you  intermix you get very silly readings  hot temperatures and reverse fuel levels

if  you have a bayonet fitting tank  you can fit  6 hole by trimming it around the holes which allows it to seat and lock with the ring

The 6 hole non stabilised fuel sender is hard to find now
, the  non stabilised temp sender is available 121997
stabilised temp sender is gtr108

if you cant find a non stab fuel sender I guess you need to convert both to stabilised



1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
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