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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!


See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Oh that is interesting. It's sounding a bit like miss matched parts to me. I'll get the meter out and do loads of measuring.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:47pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD
Paula,
The only thing Bill didn't mention is what the Voltage stabiliser looks like on the later cars.
It's a little metal box, about the size of your end thumb joint, that sits on the back of the speedo.
Wiringwise, it sits between the fuses and the fuel and temp gauges.

What is does is the reverse of "stabilisation" as it turns the volts on and off!    You are a dab with a multimeter, so look at the volts supplied to the gauge.  If you see 12V(about)- 0V - 12v - 0V and so on, on a cycle of a second or so, you have one.     The device averages 10V over time, compensates for variation in the supplied volts which a dynamo car will see, and the On-Off never registers on the gauge as it's heavily damped.

You may be able to see this at the sender too - I've never tried!

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


Ok i think i need to pull the wooden part of the dash off. There's a few console lights out so that will be easier to sort with it open. I assume it's just the screws on the front of the wooden facia?
I'll take pictures and readings


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:50pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Pete Lewis
Easy to identify the gauge types
12v non stabilised the needles move imeadiatley and czn wag about on the road
10v stabilised gauges the needle moves slowly in a damped steady movementdo not react instantly

the 12v moving iron gauges must have the correct sender and temp transmitter as both are totally
different to the stabilised gauges

if you  intermix you get very silly readings  hot temperatures and reverse fuel levels

if  you have a bayonet fitting tank  you can fit  6 hole by trimming it around the holes which allows it to seat and lock with the ring

The 6 hole non stabilised fuel sender is hard to find now
, the  non stabilised temp sender is available 121997
stabilised temp sender is gtr108

if you cant find a non stab fuel sender I guess you need to convert both to stabilised



I also have a very wobbly speedo. I assumed that was the cable?
I need to identify what's what and then change what is easiest/cheapest



Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 7:58pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula


Ok i think i need to pull the wooden part of the dash off. There's a few console lights out so that will be easier to sort with it open. I assume it's just the screws on the front of the wooden facia?
I'll take pictures and readings


Nope, just unscrew the gauges from the back of the dash (access is very easy) and replace the bulbs as required.  Most people seem to go for LEDs these days, mine has them too but they're a bit dimmer than the originals.  Wobbly speedo'll be a cable, it'll be kinked or bent to a too sharp angle, just follow the route of the cable and straighten it.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 7:59pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Partially correct.  The 1600 had a large 110mph single dial (Herald style) up to September 1963 then adopted the 4 dial dash as per Paula's car with a 110mph speedo (as per Paula's car), the MKl 2 Litre had the same style of dash with the arced central switch pattern but had its speedo calibrated to 120mph, the MKll Vitesse of course had a different style of dash altogether.  There aren't many pre-September 1963 Vitesse 1600's left I guess and there weren't that many built between May 1962 and September 1963.  I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.  My guess is that it is a stabilised sender unit in a non stabilised system.

Mark


So by what you know at the moment what do i actually have? Is it a MK1 with a Mk2 dashboard. This seems to be my first problem, finding out what i am actually dealing with.
Could you let me know what you would need to tell me? I can take pictures and readings.
I'll pop the dash open and look for the stabiliser.
The temp gauge is always optimistically low and the speedo wags like an excited puppy.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 8:02pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Mark Hammond


Nope, just unscrew the gauges from the back of the dash (access is very easy) and replace the bulbs as required.  Most people seem to go for LEDs these days, mine has them too but they're a bit dimmer than the originals.  Wobbly speedo'll be a cable, it'll be kinked or bent to a too sharp angle, just follow the route of the cable and straighten it.

Mark


OK great!
Will i be able to see the little stabilizer box with the dash in?


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 8:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from JohnD

See a circuit diagram on Steve's excellent pages of almost all the workshop manuals.   https://app.box.com/s/c970f3ab0c2635962ef5 Page 375

John


I actually have the workshop manual, so that's great!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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herald948
January 17, 2017, 8:33pm Report to Moderator


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Quoted from Mark Hammond
... I think that stabilised gauges came in around 1967/8 with the introduction of the Herald 13/60 and possibly a year earlier on the Vitesse with the launch of the 2 Litre.
That's what I had always thought, based on what I'd read in the Factory Workshop Manual. But my May 1967-built Sports 1200 has "stabilized gauges" (we got temp gauges as original equipment in the US) and appears also to have been negative earth from new.



--Andy Mace

*Mrs Irrelevant: Oh, is it a jet?
*Man: Well, no ... It's not so much of a jet, it's more your, er, Triumph Herald engine with wings.
-- Cut-price Airlines Sketch, Monty Python's Flying Circus (22)
http://triumph-herald.us
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Mark Hammond
January 17, 2017, 8:49pm Report to Moderator

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Yours is a later 1600 with the correct dash and won't have a stabiliser.

Mark


Herald 1200 Saloon, owned (in the family) from new, Royal Blue/Black trim
[color=purple]MX-5 Z-Sport (Tweaked to 200bhp)2007,
Suzuki Vitara S Auto, Cosmic Black, 2017.
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 8:54pm Report to Moderator

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If i put the part number from the receipt of the fuel sender into canley classics i get this. So that's looking like you were correct.
It's like CSI this!



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Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
It has a new one fitted by the people that sold me the car. They gave me the reciept it's this one: http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-213411


213411 is the number for the stabilised sender, which would explain your gauge's odd reading perfectly.

Cheers,
Bill.

EDIT: I just saw that you've already found this out. I should have read tp the end of the thread first...


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:12pm Report to Moderator

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Ok. Brilliant.
So now all i need is non stabilised fuel sender. Sounds easy enough.


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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Paula
January 17, 2017, 9:14pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from heraldcoupe


EDIT: I just saw that you've already found this out. I should have read tp the end of the thread first...


Just got that in time!


Vitesse 6 Saloon  "Feargal" (Sharkey)
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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
So by what you know at the moment what do i actually have? Is it a MK1 with a Mk2 dashboard.


That's not what I'm seeing.
The original Vitesse 6 from 1962 had a dash with a single 5" clock, broadly the same setup as a Herald 1200, bar details.
In the second year of production, a dashboard with twin 4" instruments, speedo and tacho, plus smaller ancilliary gauges was introduced. This looks like what you've got. The same basic dashboard was used on the Mk1 2-litre Vitesse as well, though there may be detail differences.
The Mk2 dash is altogethter different, with a prominent recessed switch panel and tha ashtray moved on top of the dash.

What you have looks (superficially, at least) correct for anything bar the earliest Vitesse 1600s.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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heraldcoupe
January 17, 2017, 9:23pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Paula
Ok. Brilliant.
So now all i need is non stabilised fuel sender. Sounds easy enough.


Maybe not quite so brilliant. These have been out of production for some years, there was strong demand for used examples when I used to trade in Triumph parts, so they are now quite thin on the ground.
Look out for NOS (new, old stock) parts, Mick Dolphin would be a good starting point - part number 205003
http://www.mickdolphin.co.uk/

One warning if you manage to find a new or used original. Though the mounting dimensions are identical, the non-stabilised sender is physicaly larger than the stabilised type. Triumph in their wisdom made the aperture in the tank smaller when they introduced the stabilised system, so an early sender won't fit a late tank. If your car still has it's original tank then this won't be a problem, but be aware that there's a poential difficulty.

Cheers,
Bill.


Enthusiast and collector of early Heralds.

"The trouble with quotes over the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
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