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things that fell off... Print
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CP72
September 12, 2017, 12:24pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from yorkshire_spam


If only we'd known/been close by! I had a Spitfire water pump in the boot!


I guess, I should have checked it over earlier...
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roger keys
September 12, 2017, 8:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones

Oil pressure at hot idle.....   I think this is due to very high oil temperatures caused by me over-baffling the sump.  The oil started clean and was very black after the first day in the mountains...




What is your logic behind "over baffling" causing high oil temps?

I had high oil temps too.


1980 Triumph Dolomite Sprint - broken
1974 Triumph Stag - 4 speed auto - sort of working
1970 Triumph 2000 - 3.5 V8 - in bits
1973 Triumph Stag - 4 speed auto.
1969 Dodge Charger RT/SE, complete.
2017 HSV Maloo
2016 Ford Mustang

RBRR 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2016
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Tim Hunt
September 12, 2017, 9:24pm Report to Moderator

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Nothing fell off, the 4A didn't miss a beat the whole trip and averaged 35.25mpg door to door (corrected for a known odometer error of +1.5%). The worst consumption was, predictably 30.32mpg from St Moritz to Steinach, including the Umbrail, Stelvio, Sella and Brenner Passes and the best 39.54mpg from Steinach to Feldkirch, mostly motorway. The car used no water and about two litres of oil, partly due to a small leak from the set screw at the rear of the cylinder head, I tightened this when I spotted the problem after our Friday night stop in Germany. My Kenlowe fan packed up on arrival at Dunkerque and this proved rather awkward during then long delay at the Dartford Crossing. This afternoon I found that the female Lucar earth connection had simply come adrift from the back of the override switch, I wish I had investigated at Dunkerque, I had assumed the problem would be more involved to fix. I think I must have disturbed the connection when fiddling under the dash to reset the trip meter.

Tim
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Nick Jones
September 12, 2017, 10:02pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from roger keys



What is your logic behind "over baffling" causing high oil temps?

I had high oil temps too.


My previous engine with entirely standard sump used to hold it's oil pressure considerably better in spite of high mileage, even when very hard used.  Hot idle pressure never went below 20psi and properly hot @ 2000rpm was 60 psi or 70 psi @ 3000 rpm

The current engine, with less than 10k miles on it, can see idle pressures < 10psi, 45 psi @ 2000 rpm and barely 60 psi @ 3000 rpm.  The gauge and even the relief valve spring are the same actual ones as the old engine. (though I've tried several relief valve springs without much change)

For reasons that don't seem especially obvious now, when I built the current engine I baffled the sump with both a horizontal plate at roughly the normal oil level and a curved vertical plate below it (pic).  What I now realise I didn't do was provide enough oil return pathways so most of the returning oil goes back via the cut-out for the oil pump placing it right back by the oil pick-up.  I think this reduces the natural mixing in the sump and means that the volume of oil in active circulation is seriously reduced.

The effect is (and it's been present on this engine right from the beginning) that the oil pressure falls off very quickly as the engine warms and quickly falls further if put under duress.  It's also noticeable that the oil pressure recovers (to an extent) quite quickly if you stop or even just spend some time going slowly. Presumably because the heat gets dissipated into the rest of the oil.  I've had the same results with VR1 and Millers 20/60.  The latter, which was what was in the sump for the 10CR, fared no better in spite of supposedly higher viscosity rating and is very black after just 2,500 miles.

I now have an oil temperature gauge to fit to get some actual numbers and if the theory is proven I'll either have to fit a cooler or remove the sump and revise/remove the baffling.  The latter is favourite but it's an awkward job on a Vitesse or I'd have done it already.

The better news is that the actual pressures aren't that horrific and the engine actually seems perfectly healthy even now.  

Nick



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Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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timbancroft61
September 13, 2017, 8:38am Report to Moderator

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Umm, only thing that played up was the relay for the engine fan packed up.

However, I need to do the following:
1. Fit Shacktune prop that is taking up space in my garage-lot of good there eh!
2. Get gearbox re-built, presently not a nice change, one has to count to 2 before putting into gear!
3. I fitted a new rad before the event and had a the electric fan rad switch put into the bottom tank, a mistake that will be rectified. Also, the switch operates at 95 degrees C, this will be changed for one that switches earlier.
4. New short engine needed, some people (delighted) in telling me that the engine smoked on over-run. Not too upset about this, as far as I know the bottom end has not been apart before, must have done 180K now.
5. Get seats re-upholstered.
6. Get the car re-painted.

Blimey, next year is looking expensive!!!!!



Club Triumph Round Britain Reliability Run (Part of the organising team, what a team)!
RBRR is the best car event in the UK, not probably, it is!

1970 GT6 Mk.2: Royal Blue 6 RBRRs (98, 00,02,04,06 & 10), 2 10CRs (03 & 07). 2 HCRs 1 LCC, lots of Autosolos and numerous track days. Bought in 1983, crikey where did the time go! Now running the Roy Lacey cooling system!

1969 2.5Pi Mk.1: Slate Grey 3 10CRs (05,09 & 15), 3 RBRRs (08, 12 & 16), 3 HCRs, 2 LCCs. A few alloy panels, does need the pi kit fitting. Bought April '04. Needs paint! Just fitted some new 7J Minilites-not copies!

1967 Spitfire mk2: Wedgewood Blue. Bought November 2010. Almost seems civilised. Car has done a RBRR (Dave Picton 2010). Blimey, could be on the road soon!
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JohnD
September 13, 2017, 8:50am Report to Moderator


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Nick,
Your explanation, of limited mixing, is most attractive.
How close a fit is the surface plate to the inside of the sump?    

I run a similar baffle, secured by clips welded to the inside wall.   This allows a 1/4" gap all around, and holds the vertical baffle that much off the floor.

John


Serial Vitesse racer.

Old Blue.  1995-2001
Silverback. 2001-2007
SofS. 2007 - to date.

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GT6boy
September 13, 2017, 10:55am Report to Moderator


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Absolutely love the mastery of understatement with the evidence for the prosecution in the posts above. No reputations were bruised in the making of this latest adventure
  
Well done all on another successful event and keeping the flag flying for Triumphs across Europe  


"They may be drinkers Robin, but they're also human beings"
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PETE MOORE
September 13, 2017, 2:57pm Report to Moderator

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Hi, Only thing to fall of was the wiper arm and that was 500mts from home, refitted and no problems.
Other than a bit of oil and water now and again, Oh and a lot of petrol she few round
This was my third 10cr and 1st in my own car, now looking forward to the next

I would like to thank Ellis and this team for a brilliant 10cr

Cheers Pete Moore 10cr team 17075
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richard w
September 13, 2017, 5:14pm Report to Moderator

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Hi Pete.
If it was the driver's side, it nearly came off after the 2014 RBRR. I put a small cable tie round the lever that secures the wiper blade to the arm and that seemed to work ok. 3 years later it may have had enough!

As for us, nothing fell off, but we did get through 2 sets of points - rubbish quality condensers seems to be the general consensus - thinking electronic ignition now. Other than that a manual overdrive box would have made the passes easier.

Great run though, we both thoroughly enjoyed it - even with an auto! First time for both of us and we'll definitely do another.

Thanks Ellis and gang for all your hard work.

Richard & Roger - Team 87


72 Stag RV8
68 Mk1 2000 automatic

Warwickshire Scatter Rally 2014,2015,2016
RBRR 2014 finisher - team 94  
RBRR 2016 - team 80 - non-starter (wretched HGF!)  
HCR 2015,2016,2017
Essex 12 Car Rally 2015,2016 
CSMA NWL 12 Car 2015 finisher - just about!
CT Gaydon Autosolo 2016
Warwickshire Winter 12 Car Rally 2016   2017
10CR 2017 finisher  
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roger keys
September 13, 2017, 7:51pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones


My previous engine with entirely standard sump used to hold it's oil pressure considerably better in spite of high mileage, even when very hard used.  Hot idle pressure never went below 20psi and properly hot @ 2000rpm was 60 psi or 70 psi @ 3000 rpm

The current engine, with less than 10k miles on it, can see idle pressures < 10psi, 45 psi @ 2000 rpm and barely 60 psi @ 3000 rpm.  The gauge and even the relief valve spring are the same actual ones as the old engine. (though I've tried several relief valve springs without much change)

For reasons that don't seem especially obvious now, when I built the current engine I baffled the sump with both a horizontal plate at roughly the normal oil level and a curved vertical plate below it (pic).  What I now realise I didn't do was provide enough oil return pathways so most of the returning oil goes back via the cut-out for the oil pump placing it right back by the oil pick-up.  I think this reduces the natural mixing in the sump and means that the volume of oil in active circulation is seriously reduced.

The effect is (and it's been present on this engine right from the beginning) that the oil pressure falls off very quickly as the engine warms and quickly falls further if put under duress.  It's also noticeable that the oil pressure recovers (to an extent) quite quickly if you stop or even just spend some time going slowly. Presumably because the heat gets dissipated into the rest of the oil.  I've had the same results with VR1 and Millers 20/60.  The latter, which was what was in the sump for the 10CR, fared no better in spite of supposedly higher viscosity rating and is very black after just 2,500 miles.

I now have an oil temperature gauge to fit to get some actual numbers and if the theory is proven I'll either have to fit a cooler or remove the sump and revise/remove the baffling.  The latter is favourite but it's an awkward job on a Vitesse or I'd have done it already.

The better news is that the actual pressures aren't that horrific and the engine actually seems perfectly healthy even now.  

Nick


An interesting theroy. I too have my other stag, not baffled did not suffer at all on the last 10CR. This stag, this time, did. Down to less than 7psi at the top of Stelvio. OK, i wasn't kind to it, but then i wasn't last time either.

I baffled it only because under heavy braking all oil pressure was lost. Ive posted elsewhere on the forum about this.

As im pulling off the cross member soon anyway, i may drop the sump and put some holes in the top face of my baffling arrangement.


1980 Triumph Dolomite Sprint - broken
1974 Triumph Stag - 4 speed auto - sort of working
1970 Triumph 2000 - 3.5 V8 - in bits
1973 Triumph Stag - 4 speed auto.
1969 Dodge Charger RT/SE, complete.
2017 HSV Maloo
2016 Ford Mustang

RBRR 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2016
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Tim Hunt
September 13, 2017, 8:29pm Report to Moderator

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MOT passed today with no advisories so the 10CR did no harm. Used about 2 litres of oil (Millers Classic 20W50) on the event and pressure was never below 70psi @ 2,000 rpm and 20psi at hot idle (700 rpm). No coolant was lost.

Tim
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Nick Jones
September 13, 2017, 8:44pm Report to Moderator

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That's a pretty impressive result Tim.  I'd have to clean out and readjust the back brakes as a minimum to stand any chance of an MoT pass......

The TR is impressively fuel-efficient too.

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
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thescrapman
September 14, 2017, 6:46am Report to Moderator

Colin Wake
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Quoted from roger keys


An interesting theroy. I too have my other stag, not baffled did not suffer at all on the last 10CR. This stag, this time, did. Down to less than 7psi at the top of Stelvio. OK, i wasn't kind to it, but then i wasn't last time either.

I baffled it only because under heavy braking all oil pressure was lost. Ive posted elsewhere on the forum about this.

As im pulling off the cross member soon anyway, i may drop the sump and put some holes in the top face of my baffling arrangement.



I wonder if the standard sump is working as a rudimentary oil cooler as the hot oil sloshing all over the place losing heat to the cooler outer surface, when baffled the heat is being contained in a smaller area.

Has anybody be who had issues suspected to be related to the baffling also got an oil cooler?



Schadenfreude expert and collector of assorted rusty Triumphs on the Essex/Suffolk Border.

2010, 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016 CT Navigators Championship winner.

10CR 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011 2013 - RBRR 1990, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 - Nachtrit 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012 - Chinese rally 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - HCR 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 (3rd place), 2014. 2015, 2017

On the road.
1968 Spitfire Mk3 : 1973 TR6 : 1967 Herald 1200 Estate 1970 : 1968 Mk1 2.5PI 1968
Off the road
1967 Moss Monaco (Mk1 GT6 based) : 1970 Spitfire Mk4 : 1970 Mk2 2000 auto  : 1964 Mk1 2000  : Mk2 2.5PI
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Nick B.
September 14, 2017, 7:07am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Nick Jones



The current engine, with less than 10k miles on it, can see idle pressures < 10psi, 45 psi @ 2000 rpm and barely 60 psi @ 3000 rpm.  The gauge and even the relief valve spring are the same actual ones as the old engine. (though I've tried several relief valve springs without much change)

(...)
The effect is (and it's been present on this engine right from the beginning) that the oil pressure falls off very quickly as the engine warms and quickly falls further if put under duress.  It's also noticeable that the oil pressure recovers (to an extent) quite quickly if you stop or even just spend some time going slowly. Presumably because the heat gets dissipated into the rest of the oil.  I've had the same results with VR1 and Millers 20/60.  The latter, which was what was in the sump for the 10CR, fared no better in spite of supposedly higher viscosity rating and is very black after just 2,500 miles.

I now have an oil temperature gauge to fit to get some actual numbers and if the theory is proven I'll either have to fit a cooler or remove the sump and revise/remove the baffling.  The latter is favourite but it's an awkward job on a Vitesse or I'd have done it already.

The better news is that the actual pressures aren't that horrific and the engine actually seems perfectly healthy even now.  

Nick


I can tell much the same story - apart from the baffling.


My engine has about 10.000 miles on it. Oilpressure is about 75 when stonecold. Then moves to 50 in 10 minutes time. When proper hot it will be around 10psi on tickover (750 rpm). Tickover gets very slow when hot.

The oil temperature is consistent 90 degrees - apart from prolonged motorway runs (without OD), then it will go to 100 degrees. When proper flogged up the alpine passes oiltemperature goes to 110-120 degrees, cools down fast when going downwards. Water temperature stays perfect cold (wide radiator).

My suspicion has been the oilpump, as this is a new repro. Engine will come out this winter to inspect shells.

Cheers
Nick


70 Spitfire Mk3 - Laurel Green/<br>68 GT6 MK2 - Jasmine Yellow
My Blog http://triumph-junkie.blogspot.com
RDRR2007, RBRR08
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RobPearce
September 14, 2017, 8:07am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from richard w
If it was the driver's side, it nearly came off after the 2014 RBRR. I put a small cable tie round the lever that secures the wiper blade to the arm and that seemed to work ok. 3 years later it may have had enough!


Tessa's driver's side wiper arm broke on the 2006 RBRR, somewhere around Dartmoor. I temporarily fixed it with a couple of cable ties and a red butt splice (to pad out for tension on the cable ties). That fix is still in place and showing no signs of failing.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
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Triumph Torque    Toutes Directions - Competitions    10 Countries Run  ›  things that fell off...

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