Are the Herald angels singing? :: Triumph Torque

RH Classic Insurance

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Are the Herald angels singing?
Forum Login
Login Name: Create a new account
Password:     Forgot password

Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Are the Herald angels singing?
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 17 Guests

Are the Herald angels singing? Print
2 Pages 1 2 All Recommend Thread
Steve68
December 16, 2017, 2:59pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Good afternoon all.
This is my first post here and I wasn't too sure where to start, so I thought it best to say Hi and ask a question at the same time  

I currently own a mildly tuned Dolomite and quite fancy a Herald for the Mrs.  I've found a saloon 13/60 which has undergone a convertible conversion.  The seller seems a really nice, honest guy but he can't find any paperwork that tells me what has or hasn't been done.  All i know is there are many differing views on the Herald roof removal regarding structural rigidity etc etc, but I have asked about the anti burst locks which the seller told me none have been fitted as the originals have been fitted accurately so there are no door opening issues.
As I said, the seller seems a really genuine guy and I'm not wanting to make him sound a liar in any way.  But as this car would be for my wife (and the kids will obviously be passengers), I need to know the car is safe and structurally sound.
What should I look for in a "conversion"?
Any help would be fantastic.
All the best,
Steve.
Logged
Private Message
davidb5964
December 16, 2017, 3:37pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 186
Posts Per Day: 0.27
Welcome. From my limited experience I think if bought it may be an idea to fit the anti burst catches. Me thinks it should not be too hard to fit but someone more knowledgeable will be along to advise. I have seen them for sale on flea  bay
Logged
Private Message Reply: 1 - 22
Steve68
December 16, 2017, 3:40pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Thanks for the welcome / reply.

I would have thought any professional conversion would have the anti burst kit fitted wouldn't it?
Surely safety would be paramount on a conversion?
I have limited knowledge too as you can see  
Logged
Private Message Reply: 2 - 22
RobPearce
December 16, 2017, 6:20pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 1,781
Posts Per Day: 1.42
A convertible NEEDS the anti-burst kit. The saloon roof holds the door apertures vaguely to size in the event of a crunch. The anti-burst kit tries to do the same for a convertible. The Herald door catches are not adequate under anything like modern safety standards anyway, so dropping below the factory spec would be no good.

General rigidity isn't an issue as the chassis is the same between saloon and convertible but the door anti-burst is required.

As to what else to look for - a proper conversion involves the fitment of an entire convertible body tub with all its bits. Not all were done to that standard. The hood should fold fully down behind the rear seat for a flat rear deck - no protruding pram effect.


Current fleet
1967 Vitesse 2L conv "Tessa"
1970 Spitfire Mk3 (project) "Toby"
1972 GT6 Mk3
Not enough time or space
Recently sold:
1972 2.5 PI estate "Harry" (gone to russell on here)
1973 Toledo 2-door "Spike" (gone to a club official)
Used to have:
1968 Vitesse 2L saloon
1980 Dolomite 1500
1977 Dolomite 1850
1980 Dolomite Sprint
1982 TR7 DHC Sprint
1975 2500S saloon
1971 Herald 13/60 Estate (with 1500 Spit engine)
1975 Stag
Logged
Private Message Reply: 3 - 22
Steve68
December 16, 2017, 9:48pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Thanks RobPearce.  
The thing with this particular car is that it has no hood.  Just a full tonneau cover and the hard top itself.
I've had a reply from the seller and the "conversion" equates to a set of poppers for the tonneau and a piece of chrome trim to cover the rear bolt holes.
So basically it's as I expected, a Herald with the roof unbolted.  Not a major issue but I want to make sure it's as safe car before letting the wife drive it.
The only issue I actually can see is being caught in a shower when driving with the roof off.   A proper convertible would offer at least a small amount of protection.
I'll have to think about it and see what price will buy it.......
Logged
Private Message Reply: 4 - 22
thescrapman
December 17, 2017, 8:34am Report to Moderator

Colin Wake
Club Member
Club member
Posts: 10,312
Posts Per Day: 2.28
Sounds like someone has taken the roof off a saloon.

Does it have a proper hood well for a frame to fold into?


Schadenfreude expert and collector of assorted rusty Triumphs on the Essex/Suffolk Border.

2010, 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016 CT Navigators Championship winner.

10CR 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011 2013 2017 - RBRR 1990, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 - Nachtrit 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012 - Chinese rally 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 - HCR 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013 (3rd place), 2014. 2015, 2017

On the road.
1968 Spitfire Mk3 : 1973 TR6 : 1967 Herald 1200 Estate 1970 : 1968 Mk1 2.5PI 1968
Off the road
1967 Moss Monaco (Mk1 GT6 based) : 1970 Spitfire Mk4 : 1970 Mk2 2000 auto  : 1964 Mk1 2000  : Mk2 2.5PI
Logged
Private Message Reply: 5 - 22
midgeman
December 17, 2017, 10:21am Report to Moderator


Posts: 391
Posts Per Day: 0.15
Not keen on conversions at all a Convertible Rear Tub is a lot different to a Saloon also the top of the Windscreen Frame is different Rear Seat is not the same either.

So if your wife wants a Convertible get the real thing if she is not bothered then a nice unmolested  Herald Saloon would probably be a better option as it would be more practical.

Good luck.


1971 Herald 13/60 Convertible (Relaxation)

2014 Ford Focus Zetec S (Daily Transport)

2017 Triumph Street Triple RX (Adrenaline)
Logged
Private Message Reply: 6 - 22
Pete Lewis
December 17, 2017, 12:28pm Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
Club Member
Posts: 3,479
Posts Per Day: 0.79
the same anti burst tongue and staple are also used of TRs available can be costly
the std latch can undo with body flex  and door lift,  you find out on a roundabout
i wouldnt go down the road without them, there are  dimples in the Bpost but dont think getting the location on the door is an easy fix,   not a job for the faint hearted  as a retro fit.

agree an airy  saloon is much happier car than a CV with the hood up

a aftermarket hard top is not the same rigidity as the tin top ...be very carful this could turn into a headache


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
Logged
Private Message Reply: 7 - 22
Steve68
December 17, 2017, 4:37pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Thanks for all the help and information guys.  I think I'd rather make him an offer as a nice saloon rather than a cheap convertible and keep the roof on.
The car is ebay item number 253313261312 and I think it's quite a pretty thing.  But I don't think I'd buy it as a convertible.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 8 - 22
Steve P
December 17, 2017, 4:40pm Report to Moderator
Club Member
Posts: 883
Posts Per Day: 0.21
I think its a bit disingenuous advertising a Herald Saloon with the roof unbolted as a convertible conversion.

I would steer clear unless you want a  saloon,If the wife would like a convertible get a proper one.I have a 13/60 convertible and i love the way it drives.

Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
Logged
Private Message Reply: 9 - 22
Steve P
December 17, 2017, 4:42pm Report to Moderator
Club Member
Posts: 883
Posts Per Day: 0.21
Looks a nice car,i would buy it as a saloon.lovely colour.

Steve


No. of Triumphs owned..2
No. of Triumphs working..2
Logged
Private Message Reply: 10 - 22
Steve68
December 17, 2017, 5:14pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
Thanks again guys.
Oh, scrapman, it doesn't have a hood well.  It has no hood at all apart from the metal roof and a tonneau cover.   I would make an offer but as Steve said, I would base the offer on it being a saloon.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 11 - 22
Nick Jones
December 17, 2017, 6:04pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 10,027
Posts Per Day: 2.21
That IS a Herald saloon.  And it looks like a nice one in the pictures.  It is NOT a convertible and to state that it is is mis-description.  Mind you he also says it's a 13/70 and 1275cc........ (13/60 & 1296 would be correct).

None the worse for being a saloon IMO - nice ones are hard to find these days as everyone seems to want a convertible.  Not sure why - the saloon cabin is a nice place to be and they are more practical.

You can unbolt the roof pretty quickly (takes longer to put it back on properly).  This does make the car floppier than a saloon with the roof on but no worse than a convertible and structurally there are no real differences.  If planning to run without the roof then anti-burst catches are recommended as others have already said.  You might want to look into the insurance aspects as well.  I wouldn't fancy trying to explain that one after a mishap.......

Nick


Nick Jones
Somerset UK

Vitesse Mk 1.5 Convertible EFI, Survivor of RBRR 2008, HCR & 10CR 2009, HCR 2010, 10CR2011, HCR 2012, 10CR2013, 10CR2015, HCR 2016 & HCR 2017.
GT6 Mk3 Roto - project in progress
Spitfire MKIV son's project now on the road as a daily driver
2.5 PI Saloon now EFI (PIe?), Engine rebuilt and running sweet.  Diff howling...... Survivor of HCR 2013 & 2014 Gone to live in Swansea

http://www.tengaston.plus.com
Logged
Private Message Reply: 12 - 22
thebouncingbunny
December 17, 2017, 10:59pm Report to Moderator


Posts: 122
Posts Per Day: 0.02
You can't tell its a convertable with the roof on?thats cos it's not lol
That's a first on me.nice one.
Trouble is you CAN tell its a saloon with the roof off!
Looks a nice clean car.tho you gotta ask yourself if his father has a classic car auction business why it's on ebay?
Logged
Private Message Reply: 13 - 22
Rosbif
December 18, 2017, 9:28am Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 400
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Quoted from Steve68
Thanks for all the help and information guys.  I think I'd rather make him an offer as a nice saloon rather than a cheap convertible and keep the roof on.
The car is ebay item number 253313261312 and I think it's quite a pretty thing.  But I don't think I'd buy it as a convertible.


I'm clearly being thick here but I can't find the car you are all talking about, and have obviously found on the bay, any chance someone can post a complete link to it.

Thanks


Ruby : 1968 13/60 convertible
"I'm not rich enough to buy cheap"

"If it isn't broken don't fix it" - where's the fun in that?
Logged
Private Message Reply: 14 - 22
roger.england
December 18, 2017, 10:02am Report to Moderator


Posts: 770
Posts Per Day: 0.18


1971 Gilbern Invader
1956 Terrot 125 EMS
Logged
Private Message Reply: 15 - 22
Rosbif
December 18, 2017, 11:30am Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 400
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Thanks Roger.

Yes it does look quite tidy, love the colour but then I'm biased.

As many have said if you DO want a convertible buy the genuine item, if prices allow. The anti burst catches are fitted by the factory to the convertibles for a reason, not for cosmetics. So if you buy this one get them fitted.

This is a nice example of the saloon.

Horses for courses.


Ruby : 1968 13/60 convertible
"I'm not rich enough to buy cheap"

"If it isn't broken don't fix it" - where's the fun in that?
Logged
Private Message Reply: 16 - 22
Pete Arnold
December 18, 2017, 12:17pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 186
Posts Per Day: 0.06
Quoted from Rosbif


I'm clearly being thick here but I can't find the car you are all talking about, and have obviously found on the bay, any chance someone can post a complete link to it.

Thanks


Complete link is
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.h.....3261312&_sacat=0

But you should find it by putting  253313261312  in the Search box at the top of the Bay page.

Currently 96 "watchers"!



Signal Red - 1967 MkI Vitesse Saloon - North Bucks
Logged
Private Message Reply: 17 - 22
Steve68
December 18, 2017, 12:46pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
I would love to buy the Mrs a proper drop top but it's a second classic and I still have a few jobs to complete on my Dolomite which will cost me a few quid. (Worth it though, it's a beauty.) She doesn't necessarily want a convertible, I just spotted in and thought it looked great but since doing a little homework and asking you guys your opinions I'm thinking about offering around 2750.  I did wonder why his dad wasn't selling the car at his auction but I suppose it would make peanuts this time of year??
I'm also considering buying a Granada as well so 3 - 4k on a Herald is about where I would like to be and improve it as time goes on.  The half decent convertibles seem to be just north of that figure.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 18 - 22
Pete Lewis
December 18, 2017, 6:50pm Report to Moderator

Tssc Herts and Beds A.O.
Club Member
Posts: 3,479
Posts Per Day: 0.79
Why would anyone advertise a saloon with the roof off as a  convertible  /hard top when its just a saloon,
  and theres no cold setting for the carburretor presume he  means its set rich for some reason
and getting the side window seals and boot  deck seal to be water tight with regular ons and offs ,  Nah !!
buy it as a tin top and keep it that way
pete


1964 1600 Vitesse 6 Cactus and Black , now  sold
now have T2000   Mk2 saloon in French Blue/grey trim  been  restored without running since 1997
now has power steering ,poly bushed and Alfa 156 seats
location  Luton
Logged
Private Message Reply: 19 - 22
Steve68
December 18, 2017, 7:03pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 15
Posts Per Day: 0.41
It's a pretty car but yes, I'll make an offer based on it being a saloon. I doubt he'll accept though :/
Logged
Private Message Reply: 20 - 22
Drake
December 21, 2017, 8:42pm Report to Moderator

Posts: 16
Posts Per Day: 0.14
So Steve, did you make an offer? I ran into a friend from my village today, an owner of Heralds in the past and who was delighted to see my 13/60 CV when I brought it home last Summer. Anyway, he must  have started thinking about them again: he mentioned that he'd seen a saloon he liked, told me the colour, and it turns out it's this same one. He's off to see it, I think he'll make an offer too. We reckon the guy's looking for £3000 but might go a little lower - if all is as it seems, it's a solid car with good paint, a smart interior and running well so probably worth the price. We all know you can buy cheaper but any car that needs a respray, welding and plenty of replacement parts is always going to cost a lot more in the end than buying an up-together example in the first place.

My friend wants a saloon but will take the roof off in Summer - apparently his Grand-dad used to do it every year with his own back in the 70's, as did many owners. I don't think dodgy seals or the odd drenching bothered the old-school at all.
Logged
Private Message Reply: 21 - 22
Pete Arnold
December 26, 2017, 7:34pm Report to Moderator

Club Member
Posts: 186
Posts Per Day: 0.06
Well, looking again on eBay, somebody appears to have bought it on Christmas Eve.

Incidentally also on eBay, #192409696851 looks like a reasonably honest Herald 1200 Saloon at a sensible price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tri.....3:g:6kYAAOSw63FaQm5Y


Signal Red - 1967 MkI Vitesse Saloon - North Bucks
Logged
Private Message Reply: 22 - 22
2 Pages 1 2 All Recommend Thread
Print

Triumph Torque    Cars    Herald/Vitesse  ›  Are the Herald angels singing?

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread
 


Powered by E-Blah Forum Software 10.3.5 © 2001-2008

Latest Blogs-
Steve Weblin

20th January 2018 09:49am gmt
Reads of Cheadle - Triumph Car Dealer 56
Theo Boonen

19th January 2018 7:13pm gmt
FHC resto nr. 61; Various small jobs
more blogs...
Next Group Meetings-
Worcestershire Wednesday 24th January 20:00
Nottingham Monday 29th January 19:00
Essex Tuesday 30th January 20:00
more local groups...
Upcoming Events-
CMC January Jaunt 12 Car Rally
26th January 2018
more events...
Wanted-
Dolomite Sprint Wanted. Must be manual OD, tax exempt. Looking for a tidy, usable car. Improvers considered, but not looking for a restoration project. Cash waiting, will travel. Contact Ade at ; bishop.ade@sky.c om

Herald Britax Weathershield Sun Roof, complete please. Bob Angell robertvangell1@ btinternet.com King’s Lynn Norfolk

Original Vitesse 2L Brake master cylinder, suitable for rebuild to convert my Herald.Pm Steve P on the forum or e mail prismsecsys@ btinternet.com

more adverts...
CLUB TRIUMPH the Club for all Triumphs
© Club Triumph Ltd MCMXCVI - MMXV