Club Triumph

Quoted from nicmk1est-

Quiller triumph are still up and running,,just moved to lewes,east sussex 01825-873551

Thanks, Nic.

Quoted from Ian Perry-

As I understand it the MkIV Spitfire engine is the same internal spec as the Toledo 1300, the former's 2x HS2 and a slightly better exhaust accounting for the difference in output.

I think the camshaft is different, too, which probably accounts for more of the power difference than the exhaust. It's certainly possible to swap a MkIV Spitfire engine into a Toledo - you need to swap the sumps but you can keep all the Toledo manifolding and you'll probably get away with the same carb needle. Having swapped a 1500 Spitfire engine into a Herald and kept the 13/60 carb and exhaust, completely unchanged, I can confirm it worked fine.

Thanks, Rob.

I was looking on Canley Classics' website yesterday and they said the standard MkIV camshaft was 18-58-58-18 which corresponds with my recollection of the profile for the Toledo. But I could of course be very, very wrong :-)

I know the MkIII is a longer duration than the MkIV and that is the main factor in the 14 or 15 bhp difference between the MkIII and MkIV.

To go in as a like-for-like replacement, it would need the Toledo manifolds, distributor and sump, but that might be all? Obviously I would in that scenario be keeping the original engine to rebuild/cannibalise/turn into an interesting herb planter or what have you, so all the ancillaries would come off. And having paid for an unleaded conversion head, I might as well fit that too, esp as with all the ancillaries off the engine it would literally just be ten nuts and (yet another) new HG...

I'm sure Canley's are right about the MkIV cam - it's certainly milder than the Mk3, at least on late ones - but I can't remember the Toledo's profile. I thought it was milder still but I may be wrong. The 18-58-58-18 figures sound right for a 13/60 Herald so they may have carried over.

I think the Toledo head is lower compression than the Spitfire one so swapping your refurbished unleaded one over would keep even more originality

Quoted from RobPearce-

I think the Toledo head is lower compression than the Spitfire one so swapping your refurbished unleaded one over would keep even more originality

Poo to you  The unleaded head is a heavily skimmed 1500 item, now (supposedly) giving around 9.2 compression (standard 1300 Toledo is 8.75) 

I'm not sure the Toledo cams could be any milder, anything less than 18-58-58-18 and it would just be a "shaft", never mind the "cam-" bit.

I remember the 18-58 cam being described as the "caravanners profile" (probably referring to the big saloons)

I think (but happy to be corrected) the very early mkIV had the same profile as the mk3. My spit (FH215) should have one, but these days my cam does funny things. 

"but these days my cam does funny things. "

Should you really be sharing such intimate details with us, or is that a conversation best saved for your GP?

The gearbox is a bit steep for a unknown one, you may be able to get an idea of condition by popping the top off for a good look.

If they will agree to you looking inside might be worth a punt.

Quoted from Ian Perry-
I'm not sure the Toledo cams could be any milder, anything less than 18-58-58-18 and it would just be a "shaft", never mind the "cam-" bit.

The 2500TC had a 10-50-50-10 camshaft!

Quoted from RobPearce-

The 2500TC had a 10-50-50-10 camshaft!

That kinda proves my point - I don't think the TC was ever what you'd call an over-stressed engine :-D

So, as things stand at present, the plan is to get the engine out next week and get a replacement - which will get the car back on the road and running, I can then decide whether to sell the car as-is, rebuild the engine and put it back, then sell the car, or rebuild the engine, get an O/D box and turn it into a bit of a micro-GT ready for RBRR 2020...

OK, so the engine's out, and in pieces. Impressive damage to the crank journal, sadly, which I doubt will grind out (the smallest undersize I believe is 0.030" or 0.76mm) but I might be able to save the con rod and piston with some chemical metal and some polishing, what do you think?

No.3?

that usually exits through the side of the block.

Hi Colin,

Yes, no.3. Is No.3 big end failure a characteristic?

There's some marking here and there in the crankcase, but the side walls are gratifyingly intact, else there would be an unGodly mess all over the engine bay... 

Hmm...... I had a 1500 that did something a bit like that except that it knocked the fuel pump off the side of the engine complete with the bit of block it attaches to......

Suggest a good look at the bottom of the bore as well in case it's taken a hit.

Nick

Quoted from Ian Perry-

Hi Colin,

Yes, no.3. Is No.3 big end failure a characteristic?

There's some marking here and there in the crankcase, but the side walls are gratifyingly intact, else there would be an unGodly mess all over the engine bay... 

It is nearly always No.3 that suffers the catastrophic failures. Something to do with the oil supply I think.

It was No.3 bigend that failed in my Spitfire halfway up an Alp during the 2011 10CR. Not like yours though, thankfully.

Polished up, that would make a good desk trophy. I used to have a piston with a valve embedded into it on my desk at work. 

Update - Thanks for the responses.

Replacement engine bought from SpitBitz - they are only 45min away and the engine (£200) comes with 28 days on approval. It went in the back of my roadgoing Skoda Flabbier estate comfortably enough albeit that the suspension was a bit down(!).

Once it was clean enough to start playing with, I swapped the sump over and added the rest of the ancillaries. While the sump was off, I took no.2 and no.3 big end caps off and had a look at the shells, they looked OK with no scoring or other marks, and no sign of the copper backing ;-)

Next step, a clutch (old driven plate was not bad, but the fingers on the cover were hugely worn, sign of a skimped clutch change in the past) is due to arrive in the next couple of days, then it'll go into the car. I did wonder about putting oil in, attaching the starter and spinning it over on the floor to get some compression figures, but I just feel happier doing that sort of thing with the engine bolted to something solid ;-)

Engine now assembled, in and run.

Annoyingly I only discovered the fuel pump had also died when the engine was turning over and no sign of fuel appearing in the transparent fuel filter that a previous owner had fitted. One new pump later (what the heck, it's only money after all) and about a thousand turns, and eventually, suddenly, it fired. And ran, and warmed up.

Reasonable compression, oil pressure about 25-30 at idle. No nasty noises, smoke or leaks. I ran out of time to put the bonnet back on and so on, but hopefully it'll get a test drive tomorrow...

PS the broken piston and conrod are now screwed to my wall at home and look striking :-)